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TBG University: The Growing Pains of Graduation

Congratulations, you’ve been accepted to the inaugural class of Therapy for Black Girls University (TBG U).

Whether you’re packing for a new year on campus, thinking through your gap year, enrolling in a community college, or grabbing your stoles for graduation, embarking on the next chapter of your life is often exciting, but also a little scary. There can be a lot of unknowns that can leave you feeling uncertain and having the right support can help you to feel confident and grounded. TBG U was designed to help you strengthen your voice, sharpen your knowledge, and affirm who you are and who you’ll become. Our goal is to create relevant and accessible resources, content, and experiences to help you thrive at this stage of your life and beyond.

In this first episode of the TBG U series,  we’re joined by graduating seniors Jayna Ellis from The University of North Carolina, Chapel-Hill and Kaliha James of Howard University. During the conversation they shared the lessons they’ve learned over the last four years and how their perspectives have changed throughout their time on campus.

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Jayna Ellis


Kaliha James


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Our Production Team

Executive Producers: Dennison Bradford & Maya Cole Howard

Producers: Fredia Lucas, Ellice Ellis & Cindy Okereke

Production Intern: Jayna Ellis

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TBG University_ The Growing Pains of Graduation

Dr. Joy: Congratulations, you've been accepted into the inaugural class of Therapy for Black Girls University or TBGU for short. Whether you're packing for a new year on campus, thinking through your gap year, enrolling in a community college, or grabbing your stoles for graduation, embarking on the next chapter of your life is often exciting but also a little scary. There can be a lot of unknowns that can leave you feeling uncertain, and having the right support can help you to feel confident and grounded. TBGU was designed to help you strengthen your voice, sharpen your knowledge, and affirm who you are and who you will become. Our goal is to create relevant and accessible resources, content and experiences to help you thrive at this stage of your life and beyond. If something resonates with you while enjoying our conversation, please share it with us on social media using the hashtag #TBGUniversity. And be sure to join us over on TikTok and Instagram @TBGUniversity. Our seminar is now in session. Laptops or phones out, you'll definitely want to take notes!

Jayna: I'm Jayna Ellis, I'm a student at the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill, graduating class of 2023, and this is TBG University.

Kaliha: I'm Kaliha James, I'm a student at Howard University graduating class of 2023, and this is TBG University.

Dr. Joy: I'm so excited to introduce you to our two guests today, Jayna Ellis and Kaliha James, two incredible graduating seniors with a wealth of knowledge and lived experience that they're going to share with us today. To kick us off, we're going to hear a little bit from Jayna and Kaliha about some of the invaluable lessons they've learned over the last four years, and how their perspectives have changed in becoming upper class women. Kaliha will kick us off.

Kaliha: The first thing is balancing my life, being on my own schedule. Because until now, like high school, you're told where to be, when to be. And even though we still have classes now, they're way more spread apart and you have more free time to figure out what you want to do, certain hobbies. That was the first thing. And then moving into my own apartment, meal prepping. Having to feed yourself three times a day – it is a task! And also moving your body, being active, that was another thing. I felt like, you know, you're young so you don't always have to worry about that stuff, but I think for the long term, I want to keep my body healthy. So finding time to be active. And evaluating the people in my life and making sure that the people that I surround myself with have similar lifestyles to me. I think especially as a teenager, you care about being liked a lot and that still goes into college. So just having the courage to be disliked or just following your own path and not feeling pressured to do certain things because everyone else is doing them.

Jayna: My senior year has taught me so much about myself in a way that the past three years just has not, and that has scared me, that has excited me, it has made me uncomfortable. But I feel like there's no other time in my life that I should be feeling these things. It's a transition period, I've accepted that. I've accepted that with change comes uncomfortableness. And with that, it's all about how you talk to yourself. What's your outlook on life? You decide how you want to think about senior year, so I just have really tried my best in moments of uncertainty, in moments of anxiety, just to see the positive, so to speak. About like the year itself and all the accomplishments I've made throughout my time at Carolina and just accepting the fact that this is a positive transition. This is a normal transition. And there are thousands of other students experiencing the same thing, so finding community and solace in that has been really important to me.

Dr. Joy: It's impressive that these young women have been able to identify these life skills and put them into practice. It becomes even more exceptional as I'm reminded that a portion of their collegiate experiences were impacted by the COVID-19 pandemic.

Kaliha: At Howard University, we were virtual for a year and a half. That was the very end of my freshman year and then we didn't get back in person till the second semester of my junior year. It really affected, I guess, the social aspect of college. Honestly, particularly undergrad, it's a very important aspect. Like just doing the work in my childhood bedroom had me going insane and I was on my phone a lot more because I had to be on my phone for school. And then being on my phone and my laptop was how I connected with my friends, so it just felt like I was constantly in front of a screen... It was exhausting to not have human interaction during such an important part of our young adulthood. And then also when we got back to Howard, most of the time, only underclassmen are on campus. So a lot of people our junior year, they had to start being off campus in apartments. It like pushed forward the timeline of us having the on campus experience at Howard. And commuting to college is a lot different than being on campus. You can miss out on some of the activities and it just prolongs your day because you have to go back and forth and things of that nature.

Jayna: Freshman year, great times. That fall semester, I almost had too much fun. I will say that. Too much fun, needed to be in a library a little bit more. But I don't have immediate family that attended school so I'm walking into it being presented just all this fun, all of this new beginnings, new life, new experiences, new people, new food, new cars. Chapel Hill is a different socioeconomic status, like it's all different from where I'm from. So that was something that I did hold on to. But I was comfortable, I was getting familiar with the change of already transitioning into a collegiate space. And then my spring semester, COVID happened. And so you're getting adjusted to studying on your own, you're getting adjusted to not having your family around you as much. So learning how to take care of myself, learning how to advocate for myself and not have my parents to like speak up for me if a teacher is not treating me right. All these things I had to learn, I was getting familiar with.

And so once COVID happened, it did uproot my experience and quite literally changed the path of my journey. And I think now having hindsight, I am grateful for that. Because in the midst of me enjoying myself, in the midst of me having all this fun that I don't regret – I do believe your first semester, have the fun. That's the time to have your fun, I'm an advocate for it. And then you learn how to have fun with balance. I don't think that without COVID I would have ever really found that ebb and flow of party, have fun, have social life, and then do your homework. I think it would have came but I don't think it would have prompted me as fast to get in that "work hard, get some play" mindset. And so I am grateful, not to COVID-19, but I'm grateful for the secluded-ness and the focus that I did have. Because while in my sophomore year, I was finally able to learn how I needed to learn to succeed in school. I was able to get comfortable in exploring my major without the pressure of everyone around me. It felt like I was on my own journey.

Dr. Joy: What a journey it's been for both of them. Despite COVID-19's impact, both Jayna and Kaliha were able to find their own version of success where it counts the most – their academics. Kaliha's path began early on in high school, which set her on an extended development plan to achieve her long term goals at Howard. Jayna took a more exploratory route, learning what she wanted to do by learning what she did not want to do and ultimately finding the confidence to find out what she's truly passionate about. Both methods are valuable, valid and common in the collegiate experience.

Kaliha: I'm a senior elementary education major, I'm preparing to be a teacher for grades K through fifth grade. And we're specified in learning how to teach in urban education to support black and other minority students. So I started volunteering with elementary students in high school, I tutored kindergarteners in math and that felt very natural for me. I noticed I had a lot of patience for kids. And then my senior year of high school, I was in a child development class and my counselor and the teacher for that class brought it up to me like this could be a path for me. And in my senior high school, there was an internship in a fourth grade class, I was actually with my old fourth grade teacher who she made a really big difference in my life. And it just showed me like this could be my future and then I just started looking at colleges that offer that major. And then I chose Howard because I'm from a small town and I just wanted more excitement. Not like New York City excitement, New York is still too much for me. DC is a little calmer but still has the city essence. So Howard was just the perfect place.

Jayna: Thankfully, I changed my major at least three times. And I was determined during the COVID time of me being isolated and focusing on myself, to find that path for me that I wanted. Not what everyone else was wanting for me or the things that they expected out of me but I decided that this journey is my own journey. And no one else can write these papers for me but me, no one else can go in that room and take that test, no one else also will have to wear… if you get a C on your transcript, you have to wear that. And so once I allowed myself to be released from that pressure and that expectation that I had been casted on, exploring a major is a brave thing that should not be looked down upon. I was finally able to settle in and I got a contact from a lady that worked in the School of Education. It was this new program starting called Human and Organizational Leadership Development. And I was just like, this is something that I could learn about, like I would enjoy it.

Once I started to think of classes in a way of I want to enjoy it, I want to learn and not "I need this for the resume, or I need this for this, or I need this for that," and I started to sit in enjoying school, that's when I was able to put my walls down and actually enjoy learning. And that's what you should do in college. But oftentimes than not, you're taking the classes to get to the next thing. And I didn't want to continue struggling, I was done struggling in school. Like I'm smart, I'm capable, but these classes are just not for me, this major is not for me. So once I got that contact from the School of Education, everything was written after that. I decided to pick up communication studies because I like learning about how people communicate and interpersonal organizational skills, and just life skills that can take you a long way. And yeah, like once I just stopped having a thought process based on others and I allowed myself to make mistakes, to fail, to experience things, I was able to open myself up to more opportunities here.

Dr. Joy: As important as academics are, we can't understate that the social aspect of college is one of the defining factors for many students. One important aspect of collegial socialization is the ability to involve yourself with on campus organizations, groups, or simply just find your people. The folks on campus that brighten your day, enlighten your perspective and remind you exactly why you made the choice to go to this school instead of another. Kaliha and Jayna both belong to on campus organizations, both which have drastically impacted their college experience for the better.

Jayna: I am a part of Kappa Omicron chapter of *[inaudible 13:45] Incorporated and that experience has been unlike anything that I could imagine. I have family members that are Deltas, I have aunties that are Deltas, but I knew that I wanted to be a part of something that was bigger than me and I knew that I wanted to give back to UNC in a very specific and very niche way. And I fell in love with Kappa Omicron, I fell in love with the women and doing the work and showing up in spaces and, you know, just being themselves and being authentic and being driven. I had some mentors that were Kappa Omicron and they just guided me. They guided me in the way of UNC in the big world that this school can feel like at times, but I feel like sisterhood. As an only child on top of that, sisterhood has been something that has meant a lot to me. Sisterhood allows me to feel grounded, it allows me to feel motivated, it allows me to grow. Being around black women at my school that are like-minded but very different in experience, and we all approach things in a different way. It allows you to learn in just a way that you've never learned before. About yourself, about others, how to treat others, how to talk to other people. Being in a sorority just has shown me so much about myself and how I like to lead and how I like to get the work done and be in an organization. I can't imagine my life without my sisters and the impact that they've had on me, it's something that's so vast to me. It shaped my college experience to a point where I couldn't imagine anything without my sisters or my chapter or sorors around the region or the nation that I've met. So I'm definitely grateful for the opportunity.

Kaliha: My freshman year, I worked at NAACP. But I'm not gonna lie, I've never been an extracurricular gal. My commitment to it was always on and off and I would get socially anxious to be in those types of spaces. So my freshman year, I found friends through the people in my dorm. I was in the community bathroom dorm so we just got close fast. And some people didn't like my dorm but I met a lot of good people. It's called Quad. So I made a lot of my friends through there and then I would make friends with their friends. And then I met people through my education major. So in my classes, we all have the same classes every semester because it's a small cohort so I found community within teachers. My community now at Howard is ONYX Mental Health Family. ONYX stands for Our Nirvana Yearning Existence, and we focus on bringing awareness to the Howard community on how to cope with stress. We are in our first decade of adulthood so that can be really hard for people. And even though we are the generation that is most aware of mental health, there's still a stigma, especially in the black community about needing help. And sometimes the Howard mental health department isn't always reliable, not gonna lie, so we are another source for people. I've noticed that a lot of times, we use substances to deal with our stress and I do that too. It's definitely normalized to go to alcohol and weed. So I think that ONYX helps show other avenues to deal with stress.

Dr. Joy: As Kaliha mentioned, the time period between 18 to 28 is your first decade of adulting. And transitioning through it can take a toll on your mental health. That's completely normal and something no one needs to feel ashamed about. On top of balancing your newly found independence plus your additional responsibilities, taking care of yourself is something you have to set the intention behind. Sometimes it involves reaching out to friends, family, a trusted advisor or educator, or in the case of Kaliha and so many other young people, a licensed mental health professional.

Kaliha: I actually finished therapy. I was in it for a year and a half. I tried to go to a therapist when I was 15 and I did not like it. We only had one session and I was just giving her background information, and I told my mom like I'm not going back. I feel, partially, she was a white lady so I didn't want to talk to her. Not gonna lie. And also I just wasn't ready. And I would gaslight myself, like I don't have problems. But I have depression and anxiety, but I've gotten over it and like still working through. And then I also have ADHD, I'm on a spectrum. My mom passed away in my senior year of high school, may she rest in peace. And I went to college still grieving her and it caused me to look for love in all the wrong places and I wasn't coping well with academics and also my love life. So the pandemic hit and I went home and I was sitting in silence and just rehashing all of my decisions that I made freshman year. And it just made me depressed and I was like I don't want to be this person anymore. A lot of my family was telling me, you have to choose happiness and it got to a point where it's like, I don't want to feel like this anymore and I want to make better choices. I want to learn how to cope with these feelings. And I was able to find a therapist. It was a great experience but no one told me after you start healing, everything around you just falls apart and comes back together.

Everyone in your life is a reflection of you, of who you are, your philosophy in life. So when you change your perspective, when you change your habits, you no longer align with certain people that you used to be around. And it doesn't mean that you're better than them, it's just you're no longer on the same path. And it can really hurt because we are humans, we are attached to things. So, you know, the steps to self-discovery, openness to change, you have to let go of old things to make room for better stuff so that's why it feels like, oh my god, I'm losing everything. And you want to hold on to old habits, you want to hold on to old people. But when you become a new person, when you're growing, you realize that God has timing and people are lessons, situations are lessons – you need to grow and learn from them, and then let them go.

Dr. Joy: If this is the kind of wisdom and self-realization that the next generation has in their back pocket, I can't help but have faith in the future of our world. Kaliha was speaking facts. This college age period you're in is going to cause a lot of growth, shedding and transformation. It's expected. What will be critical for you at this time is to proclaim who you are, what you want, and what you're not tolerating. Stand in your power and be true to yourself. Arm yourself with those that support and encourage you to be your best self every day. In the case of Jayna, it was one of her line sisters that encouraged her to take care of herself and explore new paths to mental and physical wellbeing.

Jayna: A couple of ways that I have supported my mental health in school, because that is a thing that is very imperative that you learn at these formative years – of taking care of yourself without the guidance of your parents, and self-advocating for your needs. My line sister, she invited me to this hot yoga session and I remember talking with my friend, I'm like, I just don't know. I don't know if I want to go to hot yoga, I don't think I'll be good at it. And then my friend was like, but when will you ever have a chance to go to hot yoga? Just go. The class changed my life, it changed how I felt about myself, it changed how I viewed my day to day, like it allowed me to have an hour for myself. In college, it can be fast paced. Every day you wake up, you do this, you go to sleep; wake up, do this, you go to sleep. Before you know it, you've spent three weeks, it's midpoint in the semester, you've never done anything for yourself. And with me practicing yoga, I was able to be more mindful and intentional about, just as often as I put in "this assignment is due" in my calendar, I can also put in "this is a block of an hour for myself to go to hot yoga, get my sweat, come back, shower, eat dinner, and then go back to the work." The work is never going to leave, but it's how are you able to show up for yourself in the midst of everything that's happening? Because it's never going to be given to you, you have to do it yourself. And so I'm just grateful for my line sister for planting that seed in me.

And I'm always just very shocked that that moment I realized, like no, I can't keep doing this back and forth and back and forth. Like I'm busy and I feel drained and I feel tired, I feel bad. What can I do to make myself feel better? So I think finding a hobby, finding something you're passionate in, finding that one thing that you can do every day that can make your day a little lighter. Because classes will be there, the paper will be there, the midterm will be there, but how will you be there for you? Once I started to think in that way, it was chef's kiss. Additionally, I have a therapist. Therapy — very, very important in school. Without therapy, there's just a lot of self talk that can happen in school. There's a lot of negative things that happen in school. Relationship changes, financial situations, life crises that you don't know will pop up. Life is just so unprecedented during college, it should be its own book. And so having that person that… I know, again, the schedule. I think I just love scheduling and I'm secure in knowing, let me just get through this day – on Wednesday, I'm logging on to my hour session to talk about this paper that I don't want to write. Or just my insecurities being a student, that is a real mental okay thing, to have insecurities as you move throughout the four years. So huge advocate for a therapist.

Dr. Joy: If you're looking for a black woman therapist or know a young woman that is, Therapy for Black Girls has a vast digital directory that allows you to search for in office and virtual licensed mental health professionals. You can search at

As Jayna mentioned, this college age period has so many new situations that may arise. Feelings of pride, connectivity and hope are as common as feelings of inadequacy, imposter syndrome and grief. During this time in your life, don't invalidate your feelings and experiences. No matter how small you may think they are, they matter. Jayna knows from personal experience.

Jayna: Classic tale of UNC is our basketball team. This has been a conversation that I've heard about before college. When I was talking about Carolina, people would be like, oh, Duke. Like, oh, that's the rival. And I just got that the culture of the school before even seeing the school or really doing research about the school. So having the opportunity to get accepted to Carolina and now I'm a first year, I'm hearing all the wisdom from class of 2019 and class of 2020, about their experiences rushing Franklin Street and the thrill of being a student here. And just the memories that they hold from winning a national championship and just the excitement, like it's the literal feeling that all students have when we are able to be successful as a basketball team. It's amazing and it's silly but it's something that we do take pride in. And I took pride in that. I took pride in being "we are the 2017 University of National Champions," all these things I took pride in.

So for three years, I was under the impression I was going to be able to rush a Franklin Street, go to a Duke game, do the chants, see everything on Franklin Street as it unfolds. COVID happened my freshman year, so that kind of took its own toll, so I wasn't able to. And then my sophomore year, we ended up beating Duke but because I was so disconnected to the university following COVID, I didn't feel the need to go support. I was just trying to survive remote work and being at home. And then my junior year, schedule. I was busy, I was focused on making sure that my grades are okay, I was trying to maintain my future, putting things in place. In senior year, I finally get the opportunity. I get a Duke ticket after the university changed the policy in the beginning of this year, saying that if you're a senior, you will not get a guaranteed ticket. It was an uproar on campus. All of class of 2023 was shocked because you told us for four years that we will have a Duke ticket. Again, the ingraining and the instilling of how important this game is. You've done that.

I was able to get a phase two ticket. That's a really good ticket, you're in the stadium or the stands, people spend thousands of dollars on these tickets, and I was able just to be there. And we ended up losing the game and, genuinely, that hurt my feelings because that was something that I expected. That was something that I was told that was going to happen and so I believed and I trusted in that. And it disappointed me because that's a tradition that I will never get to experience as a student. And as a person who is first generation, I want to be able to speak on my collegiate experiences to people. I went to a Duke game and we won and I got to have joy in my school and joy in being a student and joy in all the trials and tribulations that I've experienced in college. Like this is one moment I didn't get to have. And while that was a recent experience, I think it did show me to allow things not to happen. And in the midst of disappointment, learning how to continue your life and reframe how you want to move.

Again, senior year has been a lot of reframing for me and so I had to reframe how I thought about it. After we lost, I went to sleep super sad, campus was super quiet, it was a sad time. People were crying, upset, all of these emotions that they're able to feel. I decided just to be grateful that I'm graduating this year and that's something that freshman year me would be ecstatic for. So that's something that I can be proud of and that's something that I can look forward to. And I did get to go to a Duke game, so there are positives to everything that I have done. But it's how you're able to work through your grief and work through your disappointment in college that I think is the bigger picture.

Dr. Joy: While Jayna worked through her feelings of grief, Kaliha had to reckon with her feelings of impostor syndrome and pushing through the feedback of others who can't quite yet see her dynamic vision for her life.

Kaliha: I feel impostor syndrome because, one, for the longest time, grades have defined who I am and my values. Especially when I wasn't getting good grades at some point, it would be like, oh, this is equivalent to who I am. So trying to separate that academics isn't "end all be all." I am considering taking a gap year so that is also really hard because everyone's telling you if you don't go now, you're never going to do it. And it's kind of like the same thing as high school. That you see everyone else around you making moves and you're wondering, is what I'm doing right? But you really have to hone in like, this is my path and no one else's, and comparison is the thief of joy, so I just tell myself that when I feel impostor syndrome. And I also do art on the side. Even though I do want to be a teacher, I feel like a lot of people my age, they don't have one career they want to stay in so that's how I'm trying to see my future. Like I could do multiple avenues, I want to eventually connect education and art. So just realizing I can be whoever I want and I don't have to fit one label.

Dr. Joy: I'm sure Jayna and Kaliha's families are both so incredibly proud of them. I know I am. College is such a whirlwind of life lessons and personal development. It's a time in your life that can easily define your twenties and set you on a path of self-discovery you could have never imagined. Here's some closing words from the graduating class of 2023.

Kaliha: Experience is what you make of it for sure. And I have no regrets for what I've done. I think I've met a lot of great people, I've networked, I've grown into myself. I definitely was insecure about, I guess, being black, being who I am. And I feel that Howard people just came to me with open arms. I went natural my freshman year at college, and all my roommates and stuff, they helped me with my hair, shout out to them. And I learned so much more things about black history. Everyone's required to take an afro history class so I learned a lot about our people and that's something that's very valuable that I hold dear to me. Howard gives you opportunities that you might not find anywhere else and it just shows that black excellence is alive and well. And I have faith in the future generation. I think that we're definitely setting the tone for what's to come in the future.

Jayna: I honestly think that at this point of senior year, I'm looking towards making intentional memories and allowing myself to have acceptance towards my past three years. I have the advice of just making sure that like, now we're transitioning postgrad, accepting and getting closer to the acceptance piece of what the three years has looked like as we move forward. Because again, with my experience, COVID. That's something that I probably will still have to feel through and accept that I lost a year of college, which is still wild to say. But with accepting that that's happened, with me accepting that I didn't get to experience all the Carolina traditions and being a tar heel and all these things. However, there's so many more memories to be made right now that no one else will get to experience but a senior, or but someone that's about to matriculate out of school. So making sure that there's acceptance but also optimism about what's to come because I'm personally just very excited. As the weather gets warmer, as we're outside more, just accepting that optimism is an okay thing. You can be optimistic, you can be naive about what this next step looks like. These are all positive, okay and natural things. So I just say to all my graduating seniors, just relish in the fact that this page is about to be completed, that the entire book is about to be completed in this one moment, and that is beautiful within itself. So just being proud and moving with intention as you wrap up your collegiate experience.

Dr. Joy: Congratulations to the graduating class of 2023. To Jayna and Kaliha, thank you both so much for joining me on the Therapy for Black Girls podcast and sharing your experiences with us. We're rooting for you as you walk across that stage later this year. We can't wrap this episode up without having a little senior fun. So we played a little game of This or That with Kaliha and Jayna. Check it out.

Dr. Joy: Let's play a little game of This or That, college senior edition. Number one, study alone or study in groups?

Jayna: Study alone…

Kaliha: Study alone if you don't know the content because your friends will distract you. But if you have a decent concept of what's going on, study in a group because you're all going to help each other and fill spaces you don't know. My whole college experience was divide and conquer. So we work smarter, not harder, so I say it's a mix of both.

Dr. Joy: Number two. Handwritten or typed notes?

Jayna: Type, type, it's faster.

Kaliha: Handwritten notes if you don't know the content. Because when you write it, it definitely stores in your memory. But especially because we went virtual, everything was digital because I was able to quick-search certain things that I forgot. So I'm definitely more to typed notes.

Dr. Joy: Number three. Spring break or fall break?

Jayna: I will say fall break because by the time you get to fall break in that fall semester, I need the fall break. Spring break, it's like a trip time, like I didn't really need it. But fall break, by that point, midterms have already hit me, I'm tired, it's now dark. It's just you need a break. So I'm a huge advocate for a good fall break.

Kaliha: I'll say fall winter break. The spring break is still cold unless you go somewhere, like you travel. I usually go away for my fall winter break. But I think either is a relaxing time so I'm grateful, but fall break for Christmas is a month so obviously it's longer.

Dr. Joy: Number four. Paper writer or Test Taker?

Jayna: Paper all the time.

Kaliha: Definitely Test Taker. I'm not too good at in person paper tests. It's so long, I don't know how I ever did it. I don't know how.

Dr. Joy: Number five. Football season or basketball season?

Jayna: Football season. Tailgating is a big thing. So I enjoy seeing alums and just tailgating. Good food.

Kaliha: Basketball season. One, I think football is boring. I just see people get tackled all the time and I can't see no one's face. Everything's so far away. Basketball, you're like up in the mix and I'm just like basketball. I always liked watching basketball better. And then we have like our cheerleaders dance and then we have a dance team. We have two dance teams so it's a lot. It's a lot going on at basketball games and it's not cold.

Dr. Joy: We'll let the college students battle it out on Twitter based on Kaliha and Jayna's responses. I want to thank Kaliha and Jayna for joining us for this episode. Of course, we'd love for you to support these women and stay connected to them and here's how.

Jayna: You can stay connected to me on my Instagram @jayna.ellis

Kaliha: My personal Instagram is @kaliha.j. You can also find me on my art page, @kaliha.kreations.

Dr. Joy: To learn more about the work we're doing with TBG University, please make sure to follow us on both Instagram and Tiktok @TBGUniversity.


Discover the transformative power of healing in community in Dr. Joy Harden Bradford’s debut book, Sisterhood Heals. Pre-order your copy now!

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Discover the transformative power of healing in community in Dr. Joy Harden Bradford’s debut book, Sisterhood Heals. Pre-order your copy now!

Looking for the UK Edition? Pre-order here