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Session 46: Mental Health Needs of Activists

The Therapy for Black Girls Podcast is a weekly conversation with Dr. Joy Harden Bradford, a licensed Psychologist in Atlanta, Georgia, about all things mental health, personal development, and all the small decisions we can make to become the best possible version of ourselves.

This week’s episode features Licensed Clinical Social Worker, Shawna Murray-Browne. Shawna and I discussed some of the unique mental health concerns related to activism and advocacy, the importance of self care and boundaries for activists, and her work with other therapists to create spaces that are anti-racist and liberation focused.

Resources Mentioned

Emotional Emancipation Circles http://www.communityhealingnet.org/emotional-emancipation-circles/

Self-Care Tool Kit: http://www.communityhealingnet.org/resources/

EVOLVE (Members-Only Online Healing Studio): http://www.HealASista.com

Healing BMore Activists: http://www.HealingBmoreActivists.eventbrite.com

The #HealASista Project FB Group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/TheHealASistaProject/

Black Lives Matter Meditations: http://drcandicenicole.com/2016/07/black-lives-matter-meditation/

Headspace App: https://www.headspace.com

 

Where to Find Shawna

https://www.ShawnaMurrayBrowne.com

Facebook: @KindredWellness

Twitter: @ShawnaMBrowne

Instagram: @HealASista

 

If you’re looking for a therapist in your area, check out the directory at https://therapyforblackgirls.com/directory.

To keep digging into today’s topic and other topics discussed on the podcast, join the Facebook group at https://therapyforblackgirls.com/tribe.

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Read Full Transcript

Session 46: Mental Health for Activists

Dr. Joy: Hey, y'all! Thanks so much for joining me for Session 46 of the Therapy for Black Girls podcast. I could not think of a better way for us to close our Black History Month than today's interview with Shawna Murray-Browne. Shawna is the director and founder of Kindred Wellness, an integrative practice dedicated to honoring culture, expanding mindfulness and holding safer space for changemakers, black women leaders and their families to heal. She holds a Master's Degree in Social Work from the University of Maryland, Baltimore and a Bachelor of Science in Criminology and Family Science from the University of Maryland, College Park.

Shawna is a licensed clinical social worker in the state of Maryland, QiGong instructor, speaker, and mind-body medicine practitioner. She provides liberation-focused integrative psychotherapy, community healing spaces, professional workshops, as well as QiGong and mind-body skills groups that honor the power of movement, breath and connection to nature. She is a consultant to trailblazing organizations ready to tackle tough topics about race from the heart center. Shawna and I talked about some of the unique mental health concerns related to activism and advocacy, the importance of self-care and boundaries for activists, and her work with other therapists to create spaces that are antiracist and liberation focused. Here's our conversation.

Dr. Joy: Thank you so much for joining us today, Shawna.

Shawna: Yes, I'm so excited.

Dr. Joy: I'm very excited you were able to join us. I knew that I wanted to have you on the podcast because you do some incredibly important work. You work with activists, advocates, and changemakers as a part of your practice. Can you tell us more about what those different populations are?

Shawna: Absolutely. In my work, it's two-fold where I’m serving women in leadership positions that are passionate about social justice, and then from a community aspect, I’m serving activists on a broad perspective. This could be the activist as a community organizer that is connected to the grassroots movements around political activism. It could be folks in public office that are sort of low key pro black and for social justice but seem to have to wear like a mask in their spaces. It could be an advocate that's working as a case manager or a social worker but feels like their life is driven by social justice. So, very much so across the gamut, I'm working with folks who at their core feel like they have dedicated their life to social justice and or black liberation.

Dr. Joy: Yes, Shawna, yes. I think this is incredibly important work, can you tell me how you got into this work? What made you decide that this was going to be the population that you targeted for your practice?

Shawna: This was like a really deep... I knew you were gonna ask this question and I was like, oh, what am I gonna say because it’s so deep? I have to say that my life walk has guided me to this space. I was very much so an activist growing up in high school. And then in college, I was like wearing the afro with the Black Power fist, doing all those things, but I sort of left that and found myself doing just therapy and wasn't really sure who I wanted to focus in on until later. I would say that after this Black Lives Matter movement started to happen and some of my own personal experiences (where my family was directly impacted by the the Black Lives Matter movement and the tragedies of it), I had to sit with myself and figure out—how could I live a life that would be centered in legacy and like doing really powerful and honorable work, and honoring my ancestors?

And so during that time, I was contemplating that, I was super-duper pregnant (like super, super-duper, like waddling) and a community organization that I helped to co-found that is now doing really honorable work, asked me to offer healing spaces for some activists here in Baltimore City after one of our trailblazing activists was murdered by way of community violence. And during that time I'm holding these spaces, community folks are like, “Shawna, I would never go to therapy but you’re a therapists, you’re cool, I would love to come to therapy with you.” But it was like 45 people so I was like, I love y'all and I can't. But what that highlighted for me was I needed to ensure and provide the support and training and guidance for other folks to be able to do this work explicitly. So I would say the community called me to this work as well as my sort of life path.

Dr. Joy: Isn't that so amazing? And see, that's why I think it's so important to be exposed to so many different kinds of therapists who are doing different kinds of things. Because I think all it takes is one experience with a therapist who is unlike what you thought therapy was like to open up your eyes to how therapy can be helpful for you.

Shawna: It’s the truth. All of us are not the same, we're not a monolith. And like for me, I participate very often in all of the things happening in the community and grassroots level in Baltimore City, so folks know me and it's normalized and destigmatized this whole concept of what it means to go to therapy. Because I will be like, “Hey Boo,” and yes, I'm a therapist.

Dr. Joy: Right, those two things do not have to exist separate from one another. Can you talk about some of the unique mental health needs and challenges maybe related to the kinds of people that you typically see in your practice? Like activists and advocates and those kinds of things.

Shawna: It really runs the gamut, but I would say that some of the underlying things is that we're looking at things from a framework where things are masked. Meaning like aggression is showing up in a different way and you might not know that the person is struggling with deep- seated anger because they're crafted so well and eloquently and they're on their Twitter feed. Or their emails don't seem like that that's what's happening, and they feel like they have to sort of alter themselves because they're in the public eye. Increased suspicion. Because many of the folks that I'm serving could be in high profile roles and responsibilities or they might have thousands and thousands of followers, they might be on CNBC. Because of these things, they're wondering, okay, can I really trust this person? Is this person out to get me? Suspicion of the genuineness of the folks around them is a thing that often comes up. I would say like suppression of your emotions through alcohol use, smoking weed, spending money shopping, but absolutely not being able to spend a lot of time focusing on their own wellbeing and picking out whatever is around them to sort of cope. And the same thing would be with eating. Not eating often or eating too much and the things that they're eating is not particularly healthy. Because they feel like they're always on, like they can't shut off, like they're running against the clock. I mean, that's a few of the things, Joy, but it runs the gamut of all of the sort of mental health challenges that we might see in our community. I would just say it looks different.

Dr. Joy: Yeah, that's what I was gonna add. That you're adding all of this on top of all the other mental health challenges that we might typically see someone come into therapy for. And something that you said that really struck me related to the suspiciousness and kind of paranoia that is sometimes very warranted... I've talked about that with other guests, like this kind of cultural paranoia about what's going on in the world and not knowing who you can trust. What kinds of things are you maybe doing with your clients to help to assuage some of this paranoia? How do you help them deal with it?

Shawna: I tell them explicitly that oftentimes, their paranoia, it makes sense the way that they're reflecting on it. Oftentimes, folks and my clients have read about historical figures where something happened to them when they were in the limelight, and they were doing all of these social justice movements and they were taken out by the government. And so I affirm and sit with them about the fact that, yes, history shows that these things have happened and let's sort of get clear about where the fear and the shame and all these other emotions. What's fueling this paranoia? What are the worst things that can happen and what has actually happened? So bringing them into the present moment. Oftentimes using mindfulness meditation, QiGong, which is a traditional Chinese form of meditation and movement. Prayer and ritual in alignment with whatever their sort of religious or spiritual background is. I sort of try to bring them back into the moment like, okay, you're cool now, let's take a stand and then let's get clear about what might be fueling these thoughts. And it’s usually a bunch of stuff layered on top of it that's fueling their paranoia.

Dr. Joy: Yeah, understandably.

Shawna: The other thing that I would say is everything for the activist or changemaker is amplified because these are leaders. Like these are the same folks where community sort of calls them whenever something happens within the city. “What are we going to do? The police did X, Y and Z.” They are expected to know what the next step is. And so there's a lot of things and a lot of people that they're interacting with that they might not even personally know. They could be walking around in the street and somebody just comes up to them—you were on the news, or I know who you are, or I follow you on Twitter. So it's normalizing it and then helping them figure out some tools to be able to get grounded when they are out in the community, so that they can be their best possible self.

Dr. Joy: I would also imagine, Shawna, that another thing that probably comes up or probably something that you're on the lookout for when you're working with these clients are ways that they're taking care of themselves. Because you just mentioned like complete strangers will look to them to be able to galvanize the community, and like we need to do something about this. And so the only way you can do that is if, of course, you're taking care of yourself. What kinds of things are you encouraging your clients to do in terms of self-care?

Shawna: I think one of the underlying things that I tend to have to break through with my clients is that they're worthy of taking a break. And that if they take a break or if they take some time to care for themselves, that they are not doing the community harm. They hold this sort of weight on their shoulders where they're like, well, I have to keep going. If I do this, then something else may happen. And so the way that I bring them down to strategizing about self-care is I always start with reflecting on history, history and culture. I know you might be like, what girl? What do you mean you’re reflecting on history? I ask them to reflect on folks that they are inspired by, that have done powerful work, and we seek to find out how did they take care of themselves and how did that work for them? And that's really important because it helps to reaffirm why it's important for them to take care of themselves. When we can't find any narrative for them around what worked, then usually, there's a story that follows about why that movement wasn't sustainable.

Certainly breath. I always start folks with learning how to breathe. I ask the question, so you think you know how to breathe? And then they're like, of course, I know how to breathe, girl. I'm breathing right now, I'm right here. But I teach them how to do diaphragmatic or belly breathing, how to get into their body. I teach them about some grounding techniques like drinking water, like carrying things in their pocket to support them in being able to calm in the midst of the work that they're doing. But I also work with them on scheduling time in for themselves. The activist might have several actions to do or the tenured faculty that's doing participatory research may feel like their schedule is booked to capacity with all of these outputs. And so I work with them to sort of find the time, and redefining what time looks like for them to commit to themselves. Oftentimes, there's like this misconception that, oh, I have to take a full-on spa day, it's gonna cost me however many hundreds of dollars and I don't have that. And so we demystify those concepts of self-care being something that costs a whole lot of money and we simplify it to “actually like, no, let's schedule in time for lunch.” Let's figure out a way where you can use this app to help you do some meditation or just taking a walk. And so scheduling the time out helps folks to really get reconnected to themselves.

Dr. Joy: Shawna, I’d really like to hear more about like the healing circles that you do as a part of your work. Can you share more about what that looks like and how those are useful?

Shawna: The initiative here in the city that I've established it's called Healing BMore Activists. Essentially what it is, it's two and a half hours every month that’s free to activists in the community in partnership with other black organizations. The spaces are specifically for black and brown changemakers, activists, and advocates. First, we do a check in, folks are getting to know each other. Reconnecting is usually like a mini community or family reunion, so we do a check in where folks are practicing naming their feelings, getting into the moment, and practicing breath. There is a movement aspect that's infused into the experience. One of the ones that's coming up here in February, they're going to start with some yoga and they're going to have a 45-minute yoga session that's going to be centered in them returning to their bodies and affirming the powerful work that they're doing. But honoring themselves beyond the work that they're doing, that your worthiness isn't associated only with the work that you do for community. And then they eat. We break bread, everybody gets to eat for free, it's dinner included.

While we break bread, while we are connecting over food, we are dissecting and reflecting, in the sacred space, some of the deep-seated issues that they've presented they'd like to explore. I surveyed activists and changemakers here in the city of Baltimore and I asked them, what are the things that you feel like you are struggling with? What are the things that you wish you knew? What are the things that you need? And then we took that data and we sort of infused it into the experience. Like the next healing space, we'll be talking about how oftentimes the narratives of pain have been infused into their personal identity. And how to do the healing work but changing the pain story into a story of transformation, so that you're not doing social justice work from a place of pain, but from a place of love. So that sort of happens on a monthly basis here in the city. It is a new initiative that I'm really excited about because the support that we've gotten in the city has allowed us to do it for free.

Dr. Joy: Nice. That sounds like an incredibly powerful experience. I definitely have heard more talk about not having to have your narrative be wound up with pain. But how can you then use it to, like you mentioned, be transformational?

Shawna: Yeah. Because the truth of the matter, Joy, is that usually about 100% of the time, the experiences that activists are navigating through, they're listening to and honoring the pulse of community, but they're also dealing with their own family challenges (their own experiences) and often have to come to terms with, are they going to utilize their platform solely for the initiatives of community or are they going to be able to honor themselves? I can't tell you how many of the folks that I'm serving have their own personal family tragedies that they don't talk about. They don't mention until they've been sort of nourished and nurtured into “let's build community and a village around you so that you're not coping with this in a silo.”

Dr. Joy: Yeah, and that kind of makes me think of, just like anything else could be used as a way of avoiding these other issues in our lives, it feels like maybe activism could also be one of those things. Like it feels very important to throw yourself into this kind of work, but it can also, I would imagine, separate you from the other issues that you do have going on in your life.

Shawna: Absolutely, and I think it goes both ways. When you're not dealing with your personal stuff or you are sort of, I would just say, disengaged even in the work that you're doing because of it. So you're never present, not in the community aspect or in your personal life. It's true. It can function as a drug, just like anything else... like an addiction.

Dr. Joy: Right, right. Another important part of the work that you do is to train other mental health professionals about how racism impacts the work that they do as therapists. Can you talk more about how you got into this work, and maybe share some topics that you discuss in these trainings? It sounds very, very interesting.

Shawna: I would say that I got to this... I had to be continually pushed into having these conversations, I will say, because it showed up in two ways. One way was, you remember I mentioned the the healing spaces that I held in the city of Baltimore the first time for activists, that sort of led me to establish the initiatives. And so at the end of that, all of the folks that were participating in these healing spaces were talking about their horrible experiences with therapy. And how they're not going to go and talk to some white woman or a black woman that doesn't know that they're black and that was the recurring theme that would come up. As well as, just in my professional setting, I have these experiences where I had colleagues that were well meaning white professionals who maybe they're sitting across from a young black boy or a black girl who discloses to them that they wish they were white. And the therapist sort of freezes, doesn't know where to go from that space, allows the child to continue to express these manifestations of internalized inferiority and self-hatred, and does nothing with it.

I literally had an experience where a colleague of mine had that experience with a client, came to me for support and consult. And so I shared with her some strategies that she could use, gave her a book to read and sought out training that didn't exist for her to be able to redefine or figure out what the powerful and healthy next steps will be for her client. And she became so overwhelmed and disillusioned with the concept of the fact that she could be perpetuating racism, that whiteness was a thing, that her white privilege could somehow be harming her client. She lost herself, I would say, in the shame and guilt and did nothing. Like she never re-addressed those topics. And so that child continued to exhibit these topics that, at the end of the day, I ended up having to go above and beyond to figure out a way to effectively and ethically addressed those things. Those situations in my professional experience left me in a space of fearing and fuels a lot of what happens in the training space.

You asked me to talk a little bit about what happens in the training and what kind of topics we’re exploring. Oftentimes, where we start is we unpack this concept of race. I say very explicitly that if folks are not going to be okay with being uncomfortable, then the training space with me isn't the space for them. That it’s going to be a space of growth. I try to center it also around... not shaming folks for their ignorance or the experiences that they've had where they thought that they were doing the right thing, and centering ourselves in mindfulness and using mind-body medicine to support us in being able to stay present. But we unpack different scenarios where I'm asking clinicians, like how would you handle this very same scenario that I found myself with my colleague? Or what does it look like when these topics of race, white supremacy, or white privilege sort of show up in leadership? We unpack those, folks become really uncomfortable, and then I share with them some concepts around black psychology, liberation psychology, and ways that we can apply those concepts and those strategies and frameworks in a way that could help them better serve their clients.

Dr. Joy: Generally, what is the outcome from your trainings? Because of course, it will take more than one training for somebody to really get it. But I am curious about the kind of feedback that you get and how people then may be able to continue to work with you. Or like what is the pattern then after they've completed maybe this first training?

Shawna: At the end of the training, they do some personal self-reflection where they are doing a self-assessment about what their biases are and expressing honestly with themselves what areas they feel like they need to do some healing for themselves in order to show up best for clients. And then they dissect the framework that they're using in their practice and try to identify how whiteness may be perpetuated within those frameworks or what's missing and they sort of outline like what their questions are. I provide a resource guide of different books and videos and things that folks can can utilize.

But I also find myself working more long-term with larger institutions, where I have a series called Liberation Focused Healing, where I'm literally supporting supporting teams of clinicians in dissecting these topics. Doing case study, case management, applying these things. And I'm doing clinical supervision for trailblazing clinicians that are ready to unpack the stuff and figure out how to show up in a different light. But I always share with them that you have to do your own healing work as well in order to effectively hold space. And that it's an ongoing thing, like none of us are ever done. No matter if you are a person of color, a black person, or if you are a person of privilege, white privilege, white person—we all have work to do because we've all been negatively impacted by racism and white supremacy in America.

Dr. Joy: Shawna, you make it clear in your work that there is a difference between the things that you teach in terms of being anti racist versus liberation focused. Can you talk more about what that difference is?

Shawna: It's important for folks to understand that racism is systemic and so it shows up in every aspect, in every entity, in every institution that we interface with. For me to say that I am an antiracist social worker, that would mean that I am doing work beyond the couch to seek to dismantle the institutions that perpetuate these experiences of black pain. Whereas to say that I'm liberation focused, that then informs how I'm engaging my clients on the couch. What strategies, what methods, what frameworks am I using to support them in being able to return to a sense of freedom or to find a sense of freedom that honors their existence and experiences in America? Does that make sense?

Dr. Joy: Yeah, so it sounds more like strengths focused.

Shawna: Strengths focused but from a framework that is honoring their blackness. To be antiracist might mean that I am working on policy or advocating for policy or advocating for change in the way that our academic institution trains other social workers. But for me to say that I am liberation focused might mean that the way that I'm engaging my client is going to be, how am I going to support them in establishing a strategy that recognizes the fact that they're interfacing with this racist imbalance? That's where the black psychological framework sort of comes in. Like am I looking at this from the context of the black person in their environment?

Dr. Joy: Got you. Like I've talked about before, this is incredibly important work that you do, but I can also imagine that it can be exhausting and frustrating. Just even sometimes having conversations with colleagues on Facebook will leave you drained, so I can imagine doing this work more directly the way you are, would leave you even more exhausted and frustrated. How do you take care of yourself and what other suggestions might you have for other therapists or other activists who are doing some of this work to take care of themselves while doing it?

Shawna: It gets real. Okay, so I have some rules for myself about engaging on social media specifically, and that is that I only engage if I feel like I have a solid resource where I'll be able to give them. I try to be intentional about like, “okay, here's a resource,” and then I disengage. I give the resource and I walk away. If folks want more, they can reach out. But I also limit my time on social media, like if I see someone that’s continually posting horrendous things that I feel like are damaging to my psyche, I'm going to unfollow and delete. When it comes to how I just take care of myself in general, I'll wake up and walk into my day in a rhythm or ritual. I'll wake up to prayer, I'm listening to Oprah and Deepak Chopra’s meditation on Pandora. I am drinking and sipping my tea as I'm walking to my day. I am sitting in meditation and creating my day and using visualization to keep me grounded.

And honestly, Joy, I only work a couple of days out of the week because it's really intense when I do work. I'm working two and a half to three days out of the week, and then the rest of the time I'm committing to being with family and rejuvenating myself—or doing nothing, and I mean doing absolutely nothing. And then the last thing I will say is like I try to get away and unplug. Being with my sisters, sister circles within the community and village. And so the ways that I would say that I would encourage other therapists, other activists, just listeners to sort of pour in... Of course, I'm a mind-body medicine practitioner, so I'm like explore mindfulness, y'all. Be alone, spend time alone, get in solitude, focus on your breathing, explore meditation, try yoga, try QiGong, try Tai Chi. Do it from your YouTube channel if you can't go to a class.

But also figuring out simple ways to infuse mindfulness or ways to be intentional into your day. An example might be, in a few hours, I'm going to unplug, and I'm just going to sit and focus on my breathing for a couple minutes. Or I'm just going to drink my tea with my eyes closed and listen to some tunes. So scheduling time to really reconnect. And then the last thing that comes to mind in the moment, is connecting to community. I feel like central to the healing and wellbeing of us as black and brown people is reconnecting to each other offline. Just spending time together, talking, going to community events that are celebratory, that allow for space for developing genuine relationships. That has been sort of my saving grace.

Dr. Joy: Those all sound like amazing strategies, Shawna, and I really like how you infuse so many different kinds of modalities into your work. Like the QiGong and the yoga and the mindfulness—I think you can get a little bit of everything, it sounds like, in working with you in your practice.

Shawna: I try. It might be some QiGong in the middle. I might be like, okay, so we're gonna breathe because you're not breathing. Also humor. Joy, we need to laugh, like seriously. This stuff is so heavy. Like who is it? There's somebody that I follow on Facebook and sometimes I just go to his Facebook page because he's a comedian and I just push play. KevOnStage.

Dr. Joy: KevOnStage, I figured that’s who you were talking about.

Shawna: Listen, sometimes you just have to laugh, and I also infuse that sort of comic relief into all of the work that I'm doing. Pay attention, though, sometimes it just sneaks with you. It's time to giggle and you just got to do it.

Dr. Joy: Right. You have mentioned some incredible kinds of modalities and different things and I'm sure people are going to want some resources for how they can find out more about what you're talking about. What are some of your favorite resources for these things you’ve mentioned, like the mindfulness and the antiracism work and the liberation focused work? What are some of your favorite resources that people may want to check out?

Shawna: A national sort of resource for everybody, no matter where you are, checking out the Emotional Emancipation Circles. It's an initiative by the Community Healing Network and the Association of Black Psychologists. Oftentimes, these are free healing spaces for people of color to do this unpacking around the cultural trauma and the race-based trauma that we've been enduring. Joy, I'll make sure that I share that with you. And on their website, they actually have like a self-care toolkit that they created specifically for people of color seeking to do some healing work for themselves. That's one of my favorites.

Another would be, there's a healing platform that I established a couple of years ago. It’s called EVOLVE: Sacred Self-Work to HealASista. Essentially, if folks are familiar with Blackboard, it's like healing on Blackboard. It's in alignment with the chakra system which is an energetic system that supports the energy within your body. It helps you to align with your body and being. On this platform, you can do everything from yoga and belly dancing, to guided meditations, to classes about how to change your pain story to a story of power and transformation. And all of this has been curated on this website, where you can just sort of log in and get access. So that's pretty dope and that's at HealASista.com.

There is a super awesome and amazing sister, her name is Dr. Candice Nicole. She established a Black Lives Matter Meditation for Healing Racial Trauma on her website. You can literally push play and get your meditation on, and it's specifically curated for folks that are connected to and identify as activists. I think that is super awesome and I think I have one more. You got some room for one more, Joy?

Dr. Joy: Yes, ma'am.

Shawna: All right, the Headspace app. I love apps, okay? Especially for folks that are doing so much so often, the mindfulness app called Headspace is awesome because then it will prompt you or remind you to take a breath, you can listen to a guided meditation that lasts one or two minutes—or even 10 minutes, depending on where you are. And check it, it's free, y'all. Of course, they have an aspect where you do have to pay, but you get a pretty good amount on that application for free. And so I think those are some of my most favorites. And of course, the folks that are in the Baltimore area, the Healing BMore Activists healing space. It's free and it's about to go down.

Dr. Joy: Are there any other events or other things that will be coming out of your practice that you want to share with the audience?

Shawna: Yeah, let's see. One of the other initiatives that I established specifically for the healing of black women is called the #HealASista Project, which is sacred spaces for teaching women how to heal themselves using movement, meditation, and sisterhood. I don't know when this is gonna come out, but quarterly, we have sister circle mini retreats that occur that are either $3.99 or up to $35. It's literally like a four-hour healing space where sisters come together. We eat, you're gonna do some movement. The next one we have coming up is QiGong. We are exploring the black female form, and you know where that came from *[inaubdible 0:38:58]. She's got to have it, so we're unpacking some of the realities that have to do with being a black woman in America. And everybody leaves with some concrete tools to be able to apply to their lives from a mind-body perspective. Healing BMore Activists, we’re doing healing work. I think that's it. And if any therapists are listening and they're interested in doing some training, connecting with me on my website is the best way for us to move forward. Because I'm doing a couple of trainings around specifically Healing BMore Activists and training for folks that are interested in how to apply this framework of liberation focused healing.

Dr. Joy: And what is your website, Shawna? Where can we go to find all of that?

Shawna: That's www.ShawnaMurrayBrowne.com and www.HealASista.com.

Dr. Joy: And any social media handles you want to share?

Shawna: Yep, you can follow me on Twitter @ShawnaMBrowne or on IG @HealASista. And last but certainly not least, I have two Facebook pages. One is Kindred Wellness and the other Shawna Murray-Browne, LCSWC. And then we have a Facebook group, y'all. It’s already like 1700 sistas, and it's TheHealASistaProject. It’s #HealASista.

Dr. Joy: Nice. And all of this information of course will be in the show notes for everybody to find very easily. Thank you so much for spending some time with us today, Shawna. I really appreciate it.

Shawna: Thank you so much for having me, Joy.

Dr. Joy: You're welcome. I hope that y'all enjoy that conversation as much as I did. Shawna is such an incredible sister. To learn more about her work and to check out the resources she mentioned, visit the show notes at TherapyForBlackGirls.com/session46. We'd love to hear your thoughts and feedback about the episode, so please make sure to share them with us on social media by using the hashtag #TBGinSession. You can also tag our social media accounts. We're @Therapy4BGirls on Twitter, and @TherapyForBlackGirls on both Instagram and Facebook. Remember that if you're looking for a therapist in your area, be sure to check out the therapist directory that you can find at TherapyForBlackGirls.com/directory.

And if you want a place a chat about the episode with other listeners or discuss other topics relevant to you, join us over in the Thrive Tribe which is our Facebook community. You can request to join at TherapyForBlackGirls.com/tribe. Please continue to share your love for the podcast by sharing it in your Insta stories, on Twitter, and texting those who should also check it out. If you listen on Apple podcast, please also consider leaving us a review. Thanks so much again for joining me this week. I'm looking forward to continuing this conversation with you all real soon. Take good care.

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